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Deception

This is a discussion on Deception within the Training Room forums, part of the Tactics Headquarters category; "All warfare is based on deception" ~Sun Tzu While it is obviously not real "Warfare" this quote holds meaning for ...

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Old 06-25-2008, 03:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Deception

"All warfare is based on deception" ~Sun Tzu

While it is obviously not real "Warfare" this quote holds meaning for TAO as well...

This is the first of what may become many Mini Guides from me if I can be bothered to finish them all. I'll probably be using a lot of Sun Tzu (Who coincidentally may never even have existed) quotes throughout because that's how I roll. Anything in quotation marks that is bold and italicised can be assumed to be a Sun Tzu quote unless I say otherwise.

These guides are probably not going to aid Beginners very much. if you still need to check up on the forums to work out Scout LOS or ask if Poisoned units can be moved through then this Guide probably isn't for you yet. What I aim to do is to give some tips for an intermediate player to help them improve and maybe even provide some food for thought for some of the already good players. Many of my examples may involve Dropless Games, ths is not becaus ethis advice is only useful in Dropless Games but because a Dropless game is simpler with less variables and therefore easier to use as an example for the purposes of explaining.


“Those skilled in war can make themselves invincible, but cannot cause an enemy to be certainly vulnerable. Therefore it is said that one may know how to win, but cannot necessarily do so.”


The guy knows his stuff. Provided your enemy knows enough about the game you can't personally make him open himself up to you and give you shots on those juicy units he'll be trying to protect. Although formtions play a role in giving yourself an easier time a skilled opponent can still close the door to you if he commits to it.

To give an example... Although the NJ Rush is designed for easy Cleric Kills and Same Side games against it result in you losing your Cleric 9/10 games, it like anything else CAN be stopped. If I commited to only resolve to hold my Cleric as long as possible, I can do it. I can stop that GA, I can give that Mud no hole to pop up in, I can leave no LOS open for that Scout and I can pocket my Cleric so the Knights and Dragon can't get to it. Such a heavy focus on keeping that Cleric would cause me to lose the game due to my other units being left vlnerable in the process however, but this isn't my point.

What I'm saying is that the opportunities you have are largely dictated by the opportunitys your opponent gives you. Although you can't make him give you an opening. You can make him more likely to give you an opening with the correct understanding of deception. Saying to him "Move that front row Knight so I can walk up my Witch and take your Cleric" is not going to work. To make an enemy give you an opening you need to give him a reason to. And to fool him into thinking that it's really a good idea.

There are endless ways to decieve an enemy and vice versa endless things to look out for to make sure you yourself are not decieved. There is no way I could explain them all to you. So I will focus on some of the most common and most effective (The two often correlate but not always) ones. Remember. All succesful manouevres will involve one of the following being true.

1 You will do it because you know how the enemy will react (Or be forced to)

For example if you threaten a key unit such as a Scout on 2 turn wait you can usually assume your opponent will seek to defend the Scout, they may heal or place it under a Barrier Ward if they have one available. After they have defended that Scout another unit which was your real target may become open, they may have already been using the Barrier to protect a Witch and with the Barrier now focused on protecting that Scout you can now take down the Witch.

or

2 You will do it because you know the enemy cannot react to it in a manner that threatens you.

For example if you trick the enemy into using their Scout on your Witch in a Dropless game you may now have a perfect opporunity to use your Enchantress on their Knights and then Barrier it safe in the knowledge there is no possible way of them hitting that Chanty before you can barrier it.

So here are a few methods of deception you may see people using against you or use yourself perhaps.

Baiting

"Thus one who is skilled at keeping the enemy on the move maintains deceitful appearances, according to which the enemy will act. He sacrifices something that the enemy may snatch at it."

One simple common and effective technique is "Baiting" or "Wounded Prey" this is so simple, common and effective that many wild animals are often seen using similar techniques. It simply involves being injured and getting your opponent to chase you, you then turn the tables by attacking the unit that chased after you before it has time to retreat itself.

This doesn't really need much explanation I just pointed out for you to think about. If you can get a hit in with your Knight and then retreat your Knight back before they can kill your Knight it is often worthwhile. If they choose not to follow your Knight you can heal back the damage and you have lost nothing, but if they choose to chase it down they will stumble straight into your trap and this could give you a distinct advantage. Either way it's a move worth making for you, if you have nothing productive to do in your turn then giving your enemy a chance to slip up can never harm you no matter what they do in response.

"By holding out baits he keeps him on the march; then with a body of picked men he waits for them."

Trapping

"The general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand."

After losing units to traps and being counter attacked many times people do start to get wise to the situation and may start to refuse to give you an opportunity to trick them. As such you often see an opportunity to use this technique more then Baiting when playing people with a lot of experience despite it being much harder to pull off. The basic idea is to position yourself so that you have multiple escape routes while your opponent has none. If your opponent has decided to let you come to him don't just rush his flank, if he starts feeling the pressure he'll just move his units up towards your Flank. Come at him from everywhere at once if he's not attacking you you have all the time in the world so set up slowly and deliberately to make sure every ange is covered and every unit can run if it gets weak and has units there to cover it and stop pursuers. Whereas he is confined to his space in the corner (Or centre) from here you can constantly dance with him moving back weak units and sending forward strong ones while the weak ones heal ready to reenter when the units that took their place get weak. Your opponent won't have as much space as you and he can't retreat his weak units far back enough for them to be safe. Eventually you should come out on top.

This is very situational but a lot of the best players constantly make sure they get into favourable situations, learning to do so just takes practice. One simple tip is if your opponent gives you time squeeze every last drop of usefulness out of it and set up everything to be just right before you attack. Trapping is all about being prepared long before you start fighting.

"The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory."

Camping

"The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable."

A lot of hate is directed towards this strategy, and many players can get quite upset when this is used against them. but there is only one thing you need to know. it can be effective. Camping is just staying in one place to prevent surprises and gain an advantage on any who try to attack unprepared. For example if I have a furgon form and have just paralysed a Mud Golem, I now know if I get rid of it I have a huge advantage, equally my opponent knows this. If he just leaves me and lets me kill the Mud it's going to come back to haunt him later, he will be very focused on trying to save that Mud and will try to do everythign he acn to break my focus. If I approach this calmly and methodically I shoud easily be able to us my Furgon to block off his otehr ranged units and buy myself enough time to kill the Mud. Also in the process of trying to save the mud he is very likely to bring another unit close to me and make that vulnerable for the same treatment I gave the Mud. But be careful, one slip up and everything could crumble fast, take your time. Never be afraid to use the whole timer bar considering how your opponent may possible go about attacking and threatening that focus in order to free that unit and how you will block him off if he tries it. You have all the time in the world to kill that mud off so only attack it when you have a spare turn you do not need to use blocking him off. Knowing when to hold back and capitalise on an advantage is very important for a player but remember you can't hold back the entire game or your opponent may well trap you.

"Move not unless you see an advantage; use not your troops unless there is something to be gained; fight not unless the position is critical. If it is to your advantage, make a forward move; if not, stay where you are. Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content."

Feinting

"If we wish to fight, the enemy can be forced to an engagement even though he be sheltered behind a high rampart and a deep ditch. All we need do is attack some other place that he will be obliged to relieve. If we do not wish to fight, we can prevent the enemy from engaging us even though the lines of our encampment be merely traced out on the ground. All we need do is to throw something odd and unaccountable in his way."

Feinting like Baiting is a very simple tactic, it relys on the fact your opponent has a knee jerk reaction to key units being endangered. If you want your opponents Witch but it is under a Barrier trying to defocus the barrier can be pretty risky as they are usually placed far back in well defended locations. Instead go heavy on his Scout. Try hitting it with your Knight from the side and see how he reacts. he may Barrier the Scout to save it and then you can take that Witch your original goal in the first place. he may just try to save it by healing, well that only buys him time. Follow it up, hit that Scout again with your Witch, now Healing is useless to him and with a Knight right next to him there are few places he can retreat it to where he's safe. He'll probably just barrier it here and give you the Witch. If he doesn't even better you've got an easy Scout kill there. Remember if a unit you are trying to kill id too well guarded offer a threat to a more important unit and at least some of the defenses will shift over to protect against the new threat. Use this to your advantage, when you offer two threats in one turn whether your enemy tries to over one, both or none of them it works to your advantage.

"Should the enemy strengthen his van, he will weaken his rear; should he strengthen his rear, he will weaken his van; should he strengthen his left, he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right, he will weaken his left. If he sends reinforcements everywhere, he will everywhere be weak."

If you just skimmed over and didn't read most of this. I reccomend you take one sentence away form thsi guide. the following sentence. "If you can manage to make your opponent give you openings you will have a much easier time then if you try to make an oening yourself" the best way to do this is to decieve them. Give them as many opportunitys as you possibly can to make what looks like a beneficial attack but is actually exposing them. And watch our own attacks so that you do not expose yourself.

More later. maybe...

Any thoughts on this guide? Helpful, long winded, useless, going over the obvious etc?
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks for the post dun, was a good read.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Very good guide!

Although I personaly only use trapping, the other tricks are also very usefull.

This is a very important guide for new players (takes away the trial and error proccess I had to go through as a noob.)
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Very good guide!

Although I personaly only use trapping, the other tricks are also very usefull.

This is a very important guide for new players (takes away the trial and error proccess I had to go through as a noob.)
Well that's all down to playstyle. For example I doubt anyone using a Dual beast grey Rush would see many games where his best option is to Camp. You don't need to use all the techniques. just know which one is most effective in the situation you're in.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Heh that was good. Well worth reading.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Well that's all down to playstyle. For example I doubt anyone using a Dual beast grey Rush would see many games where his best option is to Camp. You don't need to use all the techniques. just know which one is most effective in the situation you're in.
Yes but in my case, camping can lead to a tie. / a waste of time. Sure its a good strategy but I am impatient.

While baiting can sometimes lead to a dead piece. Im not much of a risk take obviously. But when it comes to the corners of the board, watch out when you play me.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Please bear in mind people that I would if at all possible like this thread to have some better discussion in it then just "good guide" please feel free to post about other deceptions you use have had used against you or point out if you disagree with anything I said or in general just give discussion and some worthwhile posts, I'm particularly interested to hear from other would be TAO Philosophers who make long winded threads like this such as Essence. : D.

Also it's "Late AM" so typos are probably everywhere forgive me.

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Yes but in my case, camping can lead to a tie. / a waste of time. Sure its a good strategy but I am impatient.
You'll find most players are impatient. You'll often find if you wait for a little bit many people will grow impatient and attack you. However this is not strictly what i was referring to. I was talking about simply knowing when it's not time to rush. Sometimes just sitting there and healing passing a couple of turns by making waste moves like moving a knight 1 sace over then back again andhealing again when there is a lull in the battle can benefit you. End result you either have your units healed back to full health or best case scenario your impatient opponent has attacked you and you ar ein a position to take advantage of that, and take out his unprepared assault. This is an example of using both Camping and Bating together.

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Originally Posted by Flaw
While baiting can sometimes lead to a dead piece. Im not much of a risk take obviously. But when it comes to the corners of the board, watch out when you play me.
It is very advisable not to trust Luck while Baiting. Although somtimes if the reward is worth it it's still a good idea in general only go for guarantees. Don't trust your Scout to block from the front. Only deal in certaintys where you know they will only get two hits on that Knight before it runs and thee is no way they can kill it unless as I said the reward is well worth the risk and the risk is low enough to be worth chancing.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Please bear in mind people that I would if at all possible like this thread to have some better discussion in it then just "good guide" please feel free to post about other deceptions you use have had used against you or point out if you disagree with anything I said or in general just give discussion and some worthwhile posts, I'm particularly interested to hear from other would be TAO Philosophers who make long winded threads like this such as Essence. : D.

Also it's "Late AM" so typos are probably everywhere forgive me.
Heres one.

Make a complex plan, that seems obvious to your opponent.

kinda falls under the catagory of trapping in this explanation.

say you manage to freeze your opponents mud golem. (you have 2 frosts)

He sends his archer in for the shot, then you freeze his mud with the other frost, then if nessesary move a piece to make room for the frost then freeze archer.

Doing so (for grey atleast) usualy means you have won the game.

Simple and sweet
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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its a good guide but id like to read more info and and situations about making osmehting look good for your oppenent but really be bad, i dunno how il get my oppenent to kill all 10 of his units, but one game my oppenent did kill his own mud golem

anyway heres the quote of you dont know what im talking about.

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Give them as many opportunitys as you possibly can to make what looks like a beneficial attack but is actually exposing them.
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