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Deception

This is a discussion on Deception within the Training Room forums, part of the Tactics Headquarters category; Originally Posted by Flawed Heres one. Make a complex plan, that seems obvious to your opponent. kinda falls under the ...

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Old 06-25-2008, 03:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Flawed View Post
Heres one.

Make a complex plan, that seems obvious to your opponent.

kinda falls under the catagory of trapping in this explanation.

say you manage to freeze your opponents mud golem. (you have 2 frosts)

He sends his archer in for the shot, then you freeze his mud with the other frost, then if nessesary move a piece to make room for the frost then freeze archer.

Doing so (for grey atleast) usualy means you have won the game.

Simple and sweet
That would be baiting. You are making your enemy attack you thinking he will gain a reward (His Mud being freed) but actually his Mud will just be refrozen and his Scout frozen. That is a very simple and often seen bait, it's only downside being it's so effective not many people will fall for it again after the first time leaving a painful memory. Perhaps Trapping was not the best word to describe Deception number 2 as a frozen unit that has been lured in by Baiting could also be described as "Trapped" but Trapping as I described it is referring to limiting an opponents movement by surrounding their formation lowering their options so that sooner or later they will be forced to decide between a bad move or another bad move due to them not having any chance of retaliating.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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A very good read, thankyou for taking the time to write all this Xiahou Dun!
Although i know these tactics pretty well, it's nice to have an easy guide to fall back on. You're right about not trusting luck, there is no way i would bait my scout if there were a 40% chance he could die.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou Dun View Post
That would be baiting. You are making your enemy attack you thinking he will gain a reward (His Mud being freed) but actually his Mud will just be refrozen and his Scout frozen. That is a very simple and often seen bait, it's only downside being it's so effective not many people will fall for it again after the first time leaving a painful memory. Perhaps Trapping was not the best word to describe Deception number 2 as a frozen unit that has been lured in by Baiting could also be described as "Trapped" but Trapping as I described it is referring to limiting an opponents movement by surrounding their formation lowering their options so that sooner or later they will be forced to decide between a bad move or another bad move due to them not having any chance of retaliating.
Yes makes sense. I guess I bait too then.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xiahou Dun View Post
It is very advisable not to trust Luck while Baiting. Although somtimes if the reward is worth it it's still a good idea in general only go for guarantees. Don't trust your Scout to block from the front. Only deal in certaintys where you know they will only get two hits on that Knight before it runs and thee is no way they can kill it unless as I said the reward is well worth the risk and the risk is low enough to be worth chancing.
quoted as "great advice"

also, if you dont rely on luck for blocks and such, and stick to what you know will or wont happen, you can say that you owned them when you win the game because nothing came down to a "lucky block". it was all planned.


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great guide Xia. i'd love to see more in the future

i camp + bait like it's nobody's business

furgons FTW!
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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In-game chat is also an effective deceptive tool imo

Usually, if I want them to do something, I act like I made a mistake (i.e. I want them to chase my retreating knight, I move knight away, leave the back exposed and act like it was accidental, and say: "damn...timer ran out")

I also just use in-game chat as mind tricks. Most people do. People usually try to distract you after they make a crucial move, by asking a question that will take up some of your time to reply. I usually just wait after my turn, and then ask them back on their turn. >:]
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:54 AM   #18 (permalink)
i see what you did there.
 
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I have to read all this?!
D:
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper View Post
In-game chat is also an effective deceptive tool imo

Usually, if I want them to do something, I act like I made a mistake (i.e. I want them to chase my retreating knight, I move knight away, leave the back exposed and act like it was accidental, and say: "damn...timer ran out")

I also just use in-game chat as mind tricks. Most people do. People usually try to distract you after they make a crucial move, by asking a question that will take up some of your time to reply. I usually just wait after my turn, and then ask them back on their turn. >:]
now I know why some people dont talk during the game :P
I use chat to my advantage against eager players. They want to kill something or rush everything in. " oops misclick" is my favorite. >;] This kind of falls into baiting. Your trying to lure them closer to your trap.
When I use dual frosts + furg I make an obvious hole in my formation,so that they rush in trying to build on my "mistake" . Thinking they have my cleric, frosts, and any other units they can get, but then I shrub up the place and put my frosts to work. > Again this falls into baiting.
Camping requires patience, as I think Xiahou pointed out. Its a game to see who has more patience. Who will make the first mistake? Who will lose patience and rush in? When I play campers I just normally lose patience and rush all my units in; after setting up for possibilties of course. I usually aim for range/golems first since they are the most fragile. Once I get the range I pull my units back and advance my frost(s) . Then I'll say gg, thinking I have the game in my palms, then lose like a noob .
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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My grey set is made for trapping archers.
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