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Wayfaerer · 06-02-2008, 10:21 AM

i figured i'd throw in my two cents on this one because old turtles were pretty much all i used when i played seriously under my main account.

this rule set would probably be gamed within the first week of using it competitively. i understand you're trying to make a chess like balanced game, but in chess rushing is a completely viable strategy. same with sacrificing units to simplify the game to your advantage. if you're looking for something close to chess the default set you get when you make a new account is probably as close as you're going to get.

if i played a game with these rules, i'd probably use 2 frosts and a furgon. what's stopping me from just making a forest and waiting for you? you'd be reduced to using your ambusher (if you had one) and your scout. both easy to deal with if i shrub intelligently. the mudquake brings a lot of balance to the game, it keeps the furgon from being too influential. imagine if i were playing a clone of myself, the game would never end.

as for the other disallowed units, what would be the point of banning wards? on a guaranteed opposite side game i can't imagine many people would choose to use a lightning ward. nobody uses barrier wards in turtle games to begin with, but they add a lot to the preemptive thinking part of the game that you talk about.

the focus rule of the stone golem doesn't make any sense. i never had a decent turtle game where i kept focus the entire game. what if my scout and dragon die and i want to make a new cluster with my frost and cleric. i would lose? this rule would make knights and dragons way too powerful, but more importantly it eliminates the whole risk/reward of playing a turtle in the first place. plus there are a lot of situations where i wouldn't want my stone focused, like if you were attacking me and i needed a unit to wall out your knights from my frost golem. i can't move through him if he's focused.

the opposite side thing i never understood. i preferred same side games and was a predominantly defensive player. opposite side matches don't really take more or less skill than same sided ones, just more time.

sorry to be tearing apart your thread, but i really think this would be a step backward for strategy. the general rule for making something great is to keep the rule list as small and simple as possible. every extra rule is something to be potentially exploited.

06-02-2008, 10:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Wayfaerer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,336	i figured i'd throw in my two cents on this one because old turtles were pretty much all i used when i played seriously under my main account. this rule set would probably be gamed within the first week of using it competitively. i understand you're trying to make a chess like balanced game, but in chess rushing is a completely viable strategy. same with sacrificing units to simplify the game to your advantage. if you're looking for something close to chess the default set you get when you make a new account is probably as close as you're going to get. if i played a game with these rules, i'd probably use 2 frosts and a furgon. what's stopping me from just making a forest and waiting for you? you'd be reduced to using your ambusher (if you had one) and your scout. both easy to deal with if i shrub intelligently. the mudquake brings a lot of balance to the game, it keeps the furgon from being too influential. imagine if i were playing a clone of myself, the game would never end. as for the other disallowed units, what would be the point of banning wards? on a guaranteed opposite side game i can't imagine many people would choose to use a lightning ward. nobody uses barrier wards in turtle games to begin with, but they add a lot to the preemptive thinking part of the game that you talk about. the focus rule of the stone golem doesn't make any sense. i never had a decent turtle game where i kept focus the entire game. what if my scout and dragon die and i want to make a new cluster with my frost and cleric. i would lose? this rule would make knights and dragons way too powerful, but more importantly it eliminates the whole risk/reward of playing a turtle in the first place. plus there are a lot of situations where i wouldn't want my stone focused, like if you were attacking me and i needed a unit to wall out your knights from my frost golem. i can't move through him if he's focused. the opposite side thing i never understood. i preferred same side games and was a predominantly defensive player. opposite side matches don't really take more or less skill than same sided ones, just more time. sorry to be tearing apart your thread, but i really think this would be a step backward for strategy. the general rule for making something great is to keep the rule list as small and simple as possible. every extra rule is something to be potentially exploited. __________________ Last edited by Wayfaerer; 06-02-2008 at 07:36 PM.