Unit Generation Rules

zzzaacckk · 06-11-2005, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Serge:

If you want your idea to be read, here are some useful guidelines to follow.

General Guidelines-

1. Post stats for your idea. Without them, you've got nothing. Even if you don't have all the stats finalized, say you don't know what to make the blocking, make sure you acknowledge that in your post. If people think you forgot to put all the stats they may not read your idea.

2. Use the forum's search function. Make sure no one else has posted an idea for a unit like your's. Users of this forum have a tendency to "flame" people who post ideas that are very similar to past ideas. If you see an idea that is very similar to your's but you feel that your's is better, than post your's. Again, just acknowledge the unit that your idea is similar to. It will keep the other members from jumping on you.

3. Do not make units for 'Greys only.' Do not make a unit but say in its description that it for grey account holders. This includes 'grey only' units and units that are deemed appropriate for both gold and grey account holders. All new units will be gold account units only, at least in the beginning.

4. Do not propose improvements for exisisting units. I know I did it once, but it's generally not a good idea. You'll probably get flamed for it.

Unit Statistic Guidelines-

1. Blocking Percentage: All units (other than the wards) use the same formula for blocking. The blocking percentage from the front is the number listed under the units special abilities. The blocking percentage from the side is equal to half of the front blocking percentage, rounded down. Only wards can block from behind, this is because wards have 100% blocking from all sides.

2. Recovery Time: All units (except for wards) use the same formula for recovery time. The number given under a unit's special abilities is the recovery time for when a unit both uses it's ability (attacks, heals, etc.) and moves on the same turn. The recovery time for when a unit only moves is one-half the given recovery time rounded down. For just using an ability it is half the given recovery time rounded up. (So if a Pyromancer moves and attacks it has to wait 3 turns before it can move again. If it attacks, but doesn't move, it has to wait 2 turns. If it moves, but doesn't attack, it has to wait 1 turn.) Wards serve the full wait time for just attacking, since they can't move.

Post Structure Guidelines-

1. Punctuate!: Try your absolute best to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I know this is just a forum for an online game, but no one wants to read sentences like "wow ur idae is really kewl!1!".

2. Title: Give your thread a good title, this is the first thing that can determine whether or not people read your idea. I often don't read threads with boring, or incorrectly punctuated titles.

3. Structure: Organize the stats and other information for your idea. There are several ways to do this. The way I do it is to put the units stats in code tags.

Ex.

Code:

Name: [Name]
HP: [# of Hit Points, aka Health]
Armor: [Armor %]
Power: [Power of attack]
Range: [Range of attack]
Block: [Front blocking percentage, the side blocking is implied]
Movement: [Max tiles unit can be moved]
Wait: [Unit's recovery time if it moved and used it's ability, the other two times are implied]
Ability: [Special Attacks or Skills]

***This MUST be in every Unit Created***

You insert the appropriate stats in the brackets.

Lord Ash · 12-22-2006, 01:26 AM

I am starting this thread in the hopes of bringing balance and order to CAU. I am hoping to reduce the number of unbalanced half-thought out units that sprout up willy-nilly. I will need a lot of help to get this working, and it will probably take while. My proposition is a point-system for unit creation. Or some other workable system to keep things balanced. Power could cost so many 'points', Giving +1 Stun costs so many points, and an 'Ability Slot'. These are just some examples, I'm sure you get the gist. It's going to take a lot of work, and I wont be able to do it alone. I'd like to see more Units that don't suffer from extreme unbalancing, units that can be workable, or at least be made so.

I have a few guidelines I'd like to lay out, at least to get things started. I've made dozens of character generation systems over the years, some good some not. Hopefully I can remember some of the basics...

Quote:

Section I

Attributes

These are the core innate abilities of a Unit, and will need a solid system for building up a Unit out of points. Some Attributes will have higher or lower costs as each one affects gameplay differently.

Hit Points: very straight forward, but should be set up so there are not a lot of 2 HP units running around, the HP costs may be used as a baseline instead of, or with power

Power: power should probably be the base line for point costs, it is very straight forward, and requires the least math to discern. At least I think so.

Armor: should cost more than power for each 'level' of armor. as armor represents a percentage of damage reduced, it will require a lot of care

Blocking: blocking is a percentage, so it may be similar to armor in its costs, a block prevents all damage from a hit, so some may consider it more important,

Movement: a difference of one point here can make a lot change in a units overall usefulness. it should have a high cost

Range: again a high cost is needed as a point of range drastically changes the unit, this cost should be lowered by minimum range requirements as per the Ambusher

Recovery: this will be difficult to get working as it will need to be lowered based on the points spent in the Attribute.

Area of Effect(AOE): this will be tricky. a 20 point DMW blast is weak, a 20 point Pyro-cross is devastating.

Powers

alot of work needs to be done in here, for now I'm focusing on "the numbers",

Abilities: ok first off all focus spells should cost a lot, they continue for a long time, possibly the entire game... abilities are thing a unit can do

Status: Unblockable, Teleporting, Etc, the little stuff in the mouse over data..... cost will need to be assigned a value to each one Status is something a Unit is

Section II

Unit types: some base rules or costs for unit types will be needed, golems always have 60HP, 0 armor etc. Wards cant move.

Section III

New Powers: Once we have set up the cost of the Official Powers, we can begin to place a value on once from CAU. Like phasing, chaining, channeling, etc. We can set up some guidlines on what a new unique power would cost. We can identify things like, is this focus, or what attribute does this affect, what is it's chance for failure. If we can "pick apart" some of these, we can give people a starting point. Lot of other stuff to do before we get here, but it is something we should keep in mind.

A maximum number of "Powers" will be needed, for screen space considerations, etc.

These are just some ideas to get the ball rolling. I'm sure a lot of changes need to be made. I've been mulling things over for a day and a half now, making edits to this, etc. I want to see what you guys think. Please however make use of the rep/PM system for comments like "great idea", and "you suck". I dont care if you neg-rep me, and get all your friends to as well. I want to keep this on topic, unless you can contribute with Data, or fresh ideas, please use the rep/PM system for off topic comments. Gypsy, MisterBlockey, Girshwin, and all you other "Great Unit" makers, along with OmegaShin, Prophet, and of course Seed, please share your knowledge. If we can get this working, I think it will really improve CAU, and maybe get us some new units for TAO...

Edits will be made to this post, to act as a compilation of what we can hash out in here. I'm sure it will take a lot of them, hopefully we can get a nice system to sticky for future reference. This thread is now a workshop.

Gypsy · 12-22-2006, 01:31 AM

The problem is you will find out that many of the core units are overpowered compared to recent creations. I tried to do something similiar before when I sat down with a can of beer and 5 hours to kill. We can still try though.
*sticky*

ambienteternity · 12-22-2006, 01:34 AM

rep for the awesome post

lord ash is one of the few that will soon grow to be respected by many

zz99 · 12-22-2006, 01:34 AM

I prefer my delusions! Hush! - Gypsy

MisterBlockey · 12-22-2006, 01:38 AM

I'm afraid that what will come out of this is some good units being set by the wayside because the point system made doesn't quite work for it, and a slew of people just trying to maximize units like they're making rpg characters.

Bl00d · 12-22-2006, 01:38 AM

The Beserker was someones idea at fps.

Flash Demon · 12-22-2006, 02:14 AM

This is a great system and all, but the only problem I have with it is for example, stun was something new with the berserker, and now it is being used all the time. The next new unit could be something completely out of the ordinary, and different from any existing ability now. This would mean that some great idea could be shut down because the idea doesn't have a point value, or seems to good to be even thought up.

Lord Ash · 12-22-2006, 03:59 AM

Yeah, I'm thinking that new powers that already exist, and ones created and approved on by the community can be added to this system, with point values worked out and declared for them. That way future units can be built upon, no sense recreating the wheel.

If we've worked out a "New Power", let say: CounterAttack. We've gone through and done all the balancing for it, all the flame quotas have been reached, it has a point value assigned. A Creator will be able to drop this in, without people having to tell him/her why that mechanic won't work that way. Then our young noob can be free to work on the more unique aspects of their unit. This will also give people a better idea of what "point value" to place on their new unique abilities. They can look and see what a pyro's AOE costs, and get an idea of where to start with his "Quake Mage". If he looks at similar Units, he can see how many points he has left to use for unique things, giving a better idea of how strong to make it.

I'm hoping to save some people some time and frustration, I'd like to see more "how do I get my Unit's gimmick to work" less how many HP should it have. Hopefully we can get a good list of powers available for people to choose from and work with. I'm adding a section on New Power cost guidlines, so we'll have somewhere to start when someone asks, "how many points should this power cost"., and so people will have some idea what their new ideas should cost.

Again, I want to aim for solid numbers here, but some things shouldn't be set in stone. If a Unit made with this system is x or y points higher or lower than the norm, that's to be expected. It will make it easier to see whether Units are meant to be practical and feasible, or if they are "Dream Units", something I think is important to diferentiate between when critiqueing a Unit.

I'll edit some of this into the "Main Guide" in a day or two, I'm also going to do some initial add-ups of the Official Units and maybe what some of the numbers mean. I'll post my data then.

dan7 · 12-22-2006, 05:31 AM

i dont think this will work for cau. this forum is about exploring your creativity and creating a unit. with this point system it will stiefel the creativity of the units and the units will begin to look uniform and similar.

06-11-2005, 05:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
zzzaacckk Keeping the Peace Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,530	Guidelines Originally posted by Serge: If you want your idea to be read, here are some useful guidelines to follow. General Guidelines- 1. Post stats for your idea. Without them, you've got nothing. Even if you don't have all the stats finalized, say you don't know what to make the blocking, make sure you acknowledge that in your post. If people think you forgot to put all the stats they may not read your idea. 2. Use the forum's search function. Make sure no one else has posted an idea for a unit like your's. Users of this forum have a tendency to "flame" people who post ideas that are very similar to past ideas. If you see an idea that is very similar to your's but you feel that your's is better, than post your's. Again, just acknowledge the unit that your idea is similar to. It will keep the other members from jumping on you. 3. Do not make units for 'Greys only.' Do not make a unit but say in its description that it for grey account holders. This includes 'grey only' units and units that are deemed appropriate for both gold and grey account holders. All new units will be gold account units only, at least in the beginning. 4. Do not propose improvements for exisisting units. I know I did it once, but it's generally not a good idea. You'll probably get flamed for it. Unit Statistic Guidelines- 1. Blocking Percentage: All units (other than the wards) use the same formula for blocking. The blocking percentage from the front is the number listed under the units special abilities. The blocking percentage from the side is equal to half of the front blocking percentage, rounded down. Only wards can block from behind, this is because wards have 100% blocking from all sides. 2. Recovery Time: All units (except for wards) use the same formula for recovery time. The number given under a unit's special abilities is the recovery time for when a unit both uses it's ability (attacks, heals, etc.) and moves on the same turn. The recovery time for when a unit only moves is one-half the given recovery time rounded down. For just using an ability it is half the given recovery time rounded up. (So if a Pyromancer moves and attacks it has to wait 3 turns before it can move again. If it attacks, but doesn't move, it has to wait 2 turns. If it moves, but doesn't attack, it has to wait 1 turn.) Wards serve the full wait time for just attacking, since they can't move. Post Structure Guidelines- 1. Punctuate!: Try your absolute best to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I know this is just a forum for an online game, but no one wants to read sentences like "wow ur idae is really kewl!1!". 2. Title: Give your thread a good title, this is the first thing that can determine whether or not people read your idea. I often don't read threads with boring, or incorrectly punctuated titles. 3. Structure: Organize the stats and other information for your idea. There are several ways to do this. The way I do it is to put the units stats in code tags. Ex. Code: Name: [Name] HP: [# of Hit Points, aka Health] Armor: [Armor %] Power: [Power of attack] Range: [Range of attack] Block: [Front blocking percentage, the side blocking is implied] Movement: [Max tiles unit can be moved] Wait: [Unit's recovery time if it moved and used it's ability, the other two times are implied] Ability: [Special Attacks or Skills] *This MUST be in every Unit Created* You insert the appropriate stats in the brackets. __________________ "He who laughs last thinks slowest" Think about it. Thanks S3RO Goodbye TAO, thanks for all the memories. Last edited by M_A_D; 09-23-2008 at 09:04 PM.

12-22-2006, 01:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
ambienteternity Hatching D/P team eggs Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Posts: 6,265	rep for the awesome post lord ash is one of the few that will soon grow to be respected by many __________________

12-22-2006, 01:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
zz99 FALCON PAAAUNCH Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Meeshegan Posts: 10,129	I prefer my delusions! Hush! - Gypsy __________________ Love to Hate - 2007 Most Opinionated - 2007 & 2008 Last edited by Gypsy; 12-22-2006 at 01:38 AM.

12-22-2006, 01:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
MisterBlockey TFA Eye STabber Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Fort Blockey Posts: 1,648	I'm afraid that what will come out of this is some good units being set by the wayside because the point system made doesn't quite work for it, and a slew of people just trying to maximize units like they're making rpg characters. __________________ lookit Tomorrow you'll wake up do a bunch of stuff and then go back to sleep. Woah I'm psychic! On the other hand, you have different fingers.

12-22-2006, 02:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
Flash Demon LF Mod + President Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 12,388	This is a great system and all, but the only problem I have with it is for example, stun was something new with the berserker, and now it is being used all the time. The next new unit could be something completely out of the ordinary, and different from any existing ability now. This would mean that some great idea could be shut down because the idea doesn't have a point value, or seems to good to be even thought up. __________________

12-22-2006, 01:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gypsy Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 0	The problem is you will find out that many of the core units are overpowered compared to recent creations. I tried to do something similiar before when I sat down with a can of beer and 5 hours to kill. We can still try though. sticky

12-22-2006, 01:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
Bl00d Reprimanded 3 Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,096	The Beserker was someones idea at fps.

12-22-2006, 03:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
Lord Ash Charter Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 9th floor of Legends Posts: 610	Yeah, I'm thinking that new powers that already exist, and ones created and approved on by the community can be added to this system, with point values worked out and declared for them. That way future units can be built upon, no sense recreating the wheel. If we've worked out a "New Power", let say: CounterAttack. We've gone through and done all the balancing for it, all the flame quotas have been reached, it has a point value assigned. A Creator will be able to drop this in, without people having to tell him/her why that mechanic won't work that way. Then our young noob can be free to work on the more unique aspects of their unit. This will also give people a better idea of what "point value" to place on their new unique abilities. They can look and see what a pyro's AOE costs, and get an idea of where to start with his "Quake Mage". If he looks at similar Units, he can see how many points he has left to use for unique things, giving a better idea of how strong to make it. I'm hoping to save some people some time and frustration, I'd like to see more "how do I get my Unit's gimmick to work" less how many HP should it have. Hopefully we can get a good list of powers available for people to choose from and work with. I'm adding a section on New Power cost guidlines, so we'll have somewhere to start when someone asks, "how many points should this power cost"., and so people will have some idea what their new ideas should cost. Again, I want to aim for solid numbers here, but some things shouldn't be set in stone. If a Unit made with this system is x or y points higher or lower than the norm, that's to be expected. It will make it easier to see whether Units are meant to be practical and feasible, or if they are "Dream Units", something I think is important to diferentiate between when critiqueing a Unit. I'll edit some of this into the "Main Guide" in a day or two, I'm also going to do some initial add-ups of the Official Units and maybe what some of the numbers mean. I'll post my data then. Last edited by Lord Ash; 12-22-2006 at 04:23 AM.

12-22-2006, 05:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
dan7 Friendliest User07 +Toby Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: There is, ocean, mountains, desert, snow, traffic, wine, famouse theme parks, and babes. Where am i? Posts: 3,935	i dont think this will work for cau. this forum is about exploring your creativity and creating a unit. with this point system it will stiefel the creativity of the units and the units will begin to look uniform and similar. __________________ How to Forum Gifts 1\|Gifts 2 Toby Fan<-use it

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