Interesting point, which is in and of itself true. If two things are different, then by definition they aren't equal. HOWEVER, those two things can be equal in specific attributes. A silver or a bronze housekey aren't equal, but when it comes to function they do the exact same thing. So, when it comes to things like... employment or the ability to clean an oven, they *are* equal.

I believe you. And that's interesting. Do you feel there is cultural acceptance of the overcompensating image? Or do people still very much view it as skewed?

Well, you *were* getting fired up. I even noted that you were "fiery" in my previous response to you. But you were still objective and cool-headed. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about something, and frankly it's ridiculous that such a thing is only viewed as some overblown emotional outburst. At some point people need to realize that we can make a strong point and be calm.

Case in point. Just like Bottle...

Holy noobs in a handbasket! Good post.

I don't think you can use the military as a counterargument though. You see, the military, much like a lot of manual labor positions, does somewhat use a lot of physical effort, which does have a biological difference between the genders.

You are right in saying that not all differences are necessarily bad or abuse. I think I was more speaking to the inquality itself.

Yes they are mocking in nature, but mocking of things that are generally founded on some truth mixed in with some outrageous things as well. Take family guy. Do most Americans have a pervert living next door? Probably not, altho everyone knows a Quagmire type personality. But look at Peter: his drinking habits and physique aren't anything unusual at all.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Nonetheless, the guy with the beer belly does have his share of relationships (keep in mind that body fat tends to increase with age, so I'm guessing you are a bit younger and not necessarily up on the older bar scene (not that I am either)). But putting that aside, it comes down to married couples as well. A married man can acquire the beer belly... but the societal pressures are still strongly imposed on the woman, tho not to a "Stepford" extreme.

...

ack sorry. i gotta go but will respond to the rest later

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...but we sacrifice like lambs.

Hey I'm not saying I'm not being edgy or whatever. Just that I was not getting angry or acting emotionally and irrationally and just flinging personal insults. In no way did I get remotely out of hand or anything. :/

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Cold as ice cream, but still as sweet.

Divorce is quite a complex matter. It's a bit hard for me to post this in english, i hope it is somehow readable: In italy our divorce laws were modified and revised multiple times. As a fundamental principle in italy, the legislator aknowledged the big disvalor and need for protection to give women as it is evident and very relevant in our order the weak position that women have compared to men.
Thus the judge will always have to apply "different laws to make things equal". Basically as you know "law is equal for all", however law accepted the fact that this equality is only possible through applying different conditions to people in different statuses. This means you can't always apply the same laws to men and women and get equality as there is a substantial disequality between male and female so only applying laws more favorable to the weaker part you can make substantial justice possible.

This said, in divorce basically thanx to these settings, women always prevail. They get the most favourable treatment possible here in italy, and this often has very negative influence on the residual relation between husband and wife, as i very often end up with couples where the woman, knowing she has law on her side, basically tries to get some sort of vengeance on her husband by taking everything. Men here often end up without a home, with a relevant sum of money to pay each month for children and wife maintenance, and most times even if they were the actual victims it is really hard to demonstrate that the divorce was caused by the woman. Basically this rigid system is only softened when the man is able to provide concrete proof of the woman's bad acting.

So basically in laws we have the other side of the medal.

To xiahou: i'm sorry for having been that harsh, however i am involved in first person in this problem as i feel very inappropriate and too young to raise a daughter. However i feel that your views lack of maturity, because as much as you can say that "ads" are different in your place, this is a problem that doesn't involve only that kind of externation of women's image, and it is most likely common to the entire first world. However, it is surely debatable, as i can argue about the same things with a prostitute, and she will never see that this is a true problem.

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Eh you're not too young to raise a daughter. I mean how old are you? I think you're around your young twenties or something? Raising a child is tough for sure, but there's no age limit. You think ten years later you magically gain the skills and knowhow to raise a child better? Nah. It's tough at any age and takes a lot of maturity. But you can have that at any age.

As for the second point. Well I find it quite humurous how you refuse to believe that things are different in other parts of the world and adamantly claim that your limited experience in one area makes it a world wide issue yet in the same breath say that my views lack maturity. :P You live in an extreme case Omega and it is almost nothing like that here and from general feedback in the US too. You'll just have to take my word for it...

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Cold as ice cream, but still as sweet.

Interesting. The translation worked out more or less ok, tho I found "children and wife maintenance" to be a funny phrase.

It sounds very much how US divorce used to be (or rather, my idea of what it used to be). Just wondering, does the husband *ever* gain custody of the children in a divorce?

I agree with Xiahou. It sounds more like first-time jitters than not being fit or mature enough to raise a child. Perhaps it's because I've seen teenagers who really are ill-equipped, but whenever you have your first child, it's still a "first". Some people read every book available, others consult their doctors for every little bit of advice, but in the end, it's still a new learning experience.

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Round here we talk just like lions...

...but we sacrifice like lambs.

Uni no lie, your response to me was weaksauce. I'm not even gonna try to reply to that!

Anyways. For divorces my religion states mother gets the kid until 10 years old then the kids given to father. Granted that both of them are stable in the mind and are fit to take care of a kid. I don't know why though...I might have to look into that.

~Respect

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Well xiahou, i may believe you, but i would want to hear more people from the uk before taking it as an objective point rather than an opinion of yours. However as i said, it is debatable, not just because of circumstances, but because of the subjective element that influences a person's view. What's black for me may be white for another person, and green for someone else when it comes to non material elements.

However, uniq: custody is complex, i couldn't explain it fully like this as a lot of circumstances are taken into account before determining who will have the kid. You need to determine both persons character, economical position, social position, and even take into account the kid's will in certain cases. As a matter of fact, unless very evident elements determine the mother's inidoneity to raise a kid, usually she gets the custody.

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Haha. It's not a matter of opinion that women are frequently hounded for sex when trying to find a job or aren't. And if you can't take the "Opinion" of 1 person for the UK and a large amount of people for the US in this thread telling you how it is, then how do you propose we take your word for how it is in Italy let alone take you seriously when you start spouting nonsense about how you think it must be a world wide issue?

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Cold as ice cream, but still as sweet.

There was people on the thread that was of my opinion too. From reading this thread i basically think i can tell that in the U.S. it depends a lot on where in the US. Which is understandable since US is so big.
I am not saying your point has to be wrong. I don't trust your point though, and not because i dislike you, but because i believe your character is more oriented towards the kind of woman i am criticizing. i can be totally wrong here but it's a feeling.

Oh, and i am 27 anyway. It's a young age here to be father, people usually marry in the 30s in italy.

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ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahaha

So indulge me. What leads you to believe this?

Seriously I'm interested to know what makes you say such a deeply insulting thing. You're lucky I'm not easily offended. You don't even have the anger excuse this time. You're just being venemous. I never knew you had such a bitchy streak Shin. :P

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Cold as ice cream, but still as sweet.